Brave New World without script updates?

Is there a version of this mod without the memes and "updates" to the story?  The changes are really bad.

Welcome!

There's not currently a version of the mod with the original script, if that's what you're asking.

Do you have any examples of changes that are "really bad"?

Excluding the deliberate 4th wall breaks from the Beginner school, and some of the more jovial movie references like Vargas, I'd be curious to know exactly what changes you think are really bad.

Making a version of Brave New World that attempts to retain the vanilla script is a lot of work that I have zero interest in doing. I have an open offer to anyone who wants to give it a shot; I'll give you the text dump from both versions. I've had a few bites, but nobody ever gets back with me once they realize how much of an undertaking it is.

I'll do it. I wont be able to start for 3 or so weeks and It'll probably take a fair while but I'll do it.

Even though it seems like a backward step, and I quite enjoy the BNW script. I have 2 weeks blocks where I dont do much at night, so a cut and paste job to stop the complaining seems fine to me.

But parts will not make no sense when certain things happen in the BNW game. And I've seen how much room all the new explanations in the training room  take up so it may actually end up being a impossible task.

I'm willing none the less, to give it a go.

6 hours ago, Mishrak said:

Do you have any examples of changes that are "really bad"?

Excluding the deliberate 4th wall breaks from the Beginner school, and some of the more jovial movie references like Vargas, I'd be curious to know exactly what changes you think are really bad.

Vargas was the last straw for me.  There's also the guy in South Figaro who tells you to "Piss off, Wanker", "L/R to do a barrel roll" on the chocobo tutorial, Slim Jims existing, hell the Slim Jims don't even tell you what it does.

Changing the game script should be a cardinal sin, and I'm extremely disappointed that this mod has such little regard for the source material that it feels the need to add memes.

Yes, how dare they have such little disregard for the source material that they would spend years of their lives tinkering on it. You, though, made it all the way to Vargas --- wait... you only made it to Vargas? Piss off, wanker... should be a cardinal sin to bitch about fan hacks without either finishing it or offering some real constructive criticism.

Keep on keeping on BTB and BNW.

I would encourage you to read this interview with Ted Woolsey. 

http://www.playeronepodcast.com/forum/index.php?/topic/145-transcript-of-ted-woolsey-interview/

Quote

. I felt really good about having captured a lot of the scatological humor, which of course would have to be expunged anyways for Nintendo's purposes. Some of the references to pop culture stuff that I thought were pretty cool and clever had to be ditched for branding and licensing and registration issues and stuff.

So Ted Woolsey made pop culture references and tried hard to capture much of the juvenile humor in the original FF6 script.  Yet much of this was expunged because he had to rewrite the script four times in 30 days basically by himself.  It has plenty of errors, still plenty of pop culture references and is deeply flawed.  I do very much wonder how many pop culture references were in that first revision.

None of your examples explain why specifically they’re bad, only that you dislike them.  Those are two very different things. I’ll concede that some of BTB’s crass humor doesn’t sit well with me at times but overall, I’m willing to look past it for Locke’s lines at the Opera House, Celes’ dialogue during Locke’s scenario, Cyan’s dialogue that was rewritten to be proper old Shakespearean by a studied linguist @Bishop and the beautiful new Setzer scene in WoR Kohlingen.

But you never actually made it that far so you didn’t see those. I’m of the opinion that you picked up BNW having already passed judegment and simply found the first really obvious reference and came here to be internet mad about it. None of your examples violate canon or change character personalities or anything of that nature.  

I'm trying to give the mod a fair shake, but adding memes lost any amount of good faith I was willing to give it.  I will try this mod again if the original script is put in place, or even the GBA retranslation but until then it's a hard pass.  

Seems I was correct that you just came here to be internet mad rather than actually be constructive. You didn’t actually read what I wrote did you? 

Also Slattery’s translation is a joke. 

30 minutes ago, Jack said:

I'm trying to give the mod a fair shake, but adding memes lost any amount of good faith I was willing to give it.  I will try this mod again if the original script is put in place, or even the GBA retranslation but until then it's a hard pass.  

 Well download a script editing program, and have a go.

Probably take a week or two to change it back, then you can share your hard work with everyone.

You can even  make it exactly as you would like it.

Funny enough, you can’t actually edit the script with FF3USME anymore.  It’s still editable but you need to collaborate with BTB and Synchysi to put it in the game. 

That is a bit of a pain.

But I have had great success with Kruptar.

Really easy to use. And if you stuff it all up it has an easy reset function.

Personally the new script is hit and miss for me. I don't really care for the extra jokes and references but I do like the character changes, Celes for example is a lot better IMO.

The game already had a bunch of pop culture references in it already and it feels kinda bloated with all the new stuff. It feels a lot more shoved in my face as well, doesn't help that the humor doesn't really mesh with me either.

For me the ideal thing would be to remove the extra jokes (references, stuff like that fart joke, the silly item names like the slim jims, ect.) but keep the frankly much better

character additions (Mishrak has already given great examples). Unfortunately I do see anything like this happening because for one BTB has already stated he has no interest in rewriting the script.

And two nobody can even mention the script without some purist screaming "They touched the script! Burn the witch, nail the script to their charred remains and push them off a cliff!".

I hardly think I'm making much of an argument either. I dunno why I even typed all this, just wanted to give my two cents on the subject I guess.  

I, too, wouldn't mind a script with the better story but without the references. That said, I have no motivation to do so, and I suspect most people complaining simply want the script to be exactly as they remember from childhood, so, meh.

3 hours ago, thzfunnymzn said:

want the script to be exactly as they remember from childhood,

Isn't that code for "Not nearly as good as you think it is."?

37 minutes ago, MetaSieg said:

Isn't that code for "Not nearly as good as you think it is."?

???

I'm having trouble understanding what you are referencing here? Are you jabbing at BNW, referencing Ted Woolsey's SNES translation, referencing the GBA translation, referencing a "more faithful fan translation" of the original japanese script, ???

1 hour ago, thzfunnymzn said:

???

I'm having trouble understanding what you are referencing here? Are you jabbing at BNW, referencing Ted Woolsey's SNES translation, referencing the GBA translation, referencing a "more faithful fan translation" of the original japanese script, ???

rose-colored glasses and the fallibility of memory

Yeah what they said. Sorry for not being more clear but yeah I meant that almost everything someone remembers being good as kid is either actually terrible or not as good as they think.

I'm very interested in making a version of the script that includes the best of what BNW has to offer (some of the writing for Celes is particularly good) while reducing the density of memes, references, and fourth wall breaks.

I enjoyed so very much about this mod.  The mechanical design is stellar, from the HP scale to the proportion of enemies that can dispel you to the variety of options available to each character... it goes on.

However, I strongly dislike rape jokes and anything adjacent to rape jokes.

Also, for me the sudden shifts in the script's tone are more jarring than they are funny.

I do think real-world references are appropriate in a few places.  The Beginner's Hall can break as many fourth walls as it likes, as that's basically necessary for its purpose.  The Ultros sections thrive on absurdity.  Nearly any scene that plays the 'wacky hijinks' music could accommodate a few weird jokes.  And so on and so forth.

So I think such a project could be very interesting and also produce a version of BNW that would be accessible to a wider audience.

57 minutes ago, MetaSieg said:

Yeah what they said. Sorry for not being more clear but yeah I meant that almost everything someone remembers being good as kid is either actually terrible or not as good as they think.

Pretty much. Nostalgia can be very strong in the video game community. I'm not innocent either.

Miasmir is onto something. You should come hop into the NG+ Discord, bet a bunch of us would love to help poke at it with you. 

Now that it's been mentioned, yeah a more serious story tone would be great and I'm totally in on that like flies on crap.

BNW has already cherry picked the best lines etc. from the Lina Darkstar and rpgone translation.

There is still a fair amount of tfhe Woolsey tranlation in it, but it's mostly inconsequential.

Most of the changes are with un-named NPC's that help point you in the right direction, offer some info, or crack a joke.

The script as mentioned by Mishrak above can no longer be altered using FF3usMe, but you can alter it with other means quite easily. (Kruptar, Atlas/Cartographer)

The other option is to submit changes to BTB/Synchisi for them to implement. It is their hack afterall.

+1 vote for removing the questionable “pop culture” jokes and maintaining the serious tone of the story. Surely nobody actually laughed at “do a barrel roll”.

8 hours ago, GeradFigaro said:

Surely nobody actually laughed at “do a barrel roll”.

Hey, I don't mind jokes like that, I chuckled seeing it. 

Oh, and don't call me Shirley. 

Frankly while I love this mod and think for the most part the dialogue comes across as more naturalistic and human, I do agree that most of the "jokes" feel fairly cringe inducing, reading more like a fan game than a professional product.  Which, I mean, I get that this technically is that, but also I tend to think of this mod as the definitive version of FF6 for me anymore, and I feel weird recommending it to people when it has that weird disparity between professionalism and being fairly juvenile.  It is WAY better than in the early days when it had the absurdly high amount of swearing, though.

It's been over a year since I popped in on the BNW board, and this is really still being complained about?

I think people forget all the cringe-worthy jokes from the original script ("I thought he just wandered away from his gym" or literally any of Ultros' lines anyone?)--I don't think that took away from the original at all, and the BNW script I think keeps with that. Hell, I prefer Clean New World almost completely because of the cheesy cover-ups for the swearing ("Great googly-moogly" will always make me chuckle, but I was a bit sad to see they took out "I will make sweet love to you with a rake" from when you ask to drive the airship). It's all in good fun, and I never thought it was too much compared to the original at all.

I just finished the second round of edits on a script that is essentially what you're asking for. Don't know when BTB is going to make it into a patch, but once it's done, it'll be BNW, with a script that is a combination of the Japanese, BNW, and Woolsey, with the aim of keeping the spirit of Woolsey, the ideas of the Japanese, and the clarity and better translation of BNW. I'll post it here when it's finished.

Hmmm, better come up with something new to complain about now... Any ideas?

5 hours ago, Kaffe Myers said:

Hmmm, better come up with something new to complain about now... Any ideas?

FF3US enemy sprites were replaced with the JP ones! THIS ISN'T WHAT I GREW UP WITH

I thought this wasn't a difficulty hack? Now I have to actually make a mild effort not to die. Literally unplayable.

I WANT THE BROKEN CAPS LOCK NAMING BACK

13 hours ago, Valenhil said:

I WANT THE BROKEN CAPS LOCK NAMING BACK

We'll properly-case all the names and use FULL CAPS FOR THE DIALOGUE.

On 6/12/2018 at 5:18 PM, Kaffe Myers said:

Hmmm, better come up with something new to complain about now... Any ideas?

 

But muh chocobo frame

There are not enough concatenated names like TunnlArmr or MithrlBld.

Also why haven’t we switched to the GBA naming scheme. Firaragaza please.

Uh, we could at least switch Merton to Melton, since its closer to the correct Meltdown?

But Merton sounds WAY cooler

Yes, yes, just like some people think Mash or Cayenne sound cooler.

I put cayenne on my mash and it's delicious.

Back the topic of script, Cyan’s Soul has both bad writing and the best new addition in the game. “Fuck you Moe” is the kind of juvenile cringe nobody cares for. But Schemp. Schemp is brilliant. When he interrupts Wrexsoul, I actually laughed for real. It’s like...that accomplishes what Ultros was meant to be in vanilla, which makes it fit even though it’s such a nonsensical reference to have in the game. That part needs to stay. 

Also whyyyyyy is a Sabin Gau party so bad at saving Cyan. 

I second Schemp. Schemp is amazing.

Tbf, though, the Dream Stooges definitely look and act like the juvenile type, so them swearing like sailors doesn't quite reflect so badly on BTB and Synchysi. I'll happily take toning down the obnoxiousness of their swearing, but the stooges are definitely the juvenile type. (Them attacking each other was kinda amusing too. It's their antics that help lead up to Schemp being amusing. All on his own, out of nowhere, Schemp would be out of place).

Mog's good at helping Cyan clear his soul, kupo!

Yeah, having them attack each other was a great touch. 

I can't stand some of the script additions either, and I never liked "slim-jim" as an item even from the beginning, but whenever this discussion comes up it turns into a bunch of site mods uncompromisingly defending the script, and purists arguing that it shouldn't have been changed to begin with. I think a balance can be had between having the good script edits such as the celes dialogue and training room stuff and even some of the fourth wall breaks/pop references that are well done, and cutting down on some of the crass humor, fart jokes, blatant out of place pop culture references and other (imo) poor writing choices 

Edit: I didn't read the entire topic before posting and see that someone had edited the script. So cool.